Okay, thus far in rereading some of my most recent posts I realize that, well, I haven't really said much in regards to my response to yours in regards to either the "emerging church" or the pursuit of truth. So, in five minutes or less, here's a crash course!
Let's discuss the "emerging church" deal first. The emerging church movement is credited with beginning in the mid to late 90's as a response to the failures of our parent's fundamentalism as well as a reaction to the postmodern philosophy which began to really take a solid hold over modernism. Essentially, people saw the holes in the picture and started to rethink things, considering that there must be other ways to do things. Our good friends at Wikipedia have a really great breakdown on the movement here: Emerging churches.
I suggest you check that out and see if you have any questions from there.
As you'll see from the reading there, the movement is not without its share of critics as well as adherents. Much of the criticism does come from the open minded approach to the spiritual life and how we interpret it and so forth. This sounds very much like what you're encountering there in Lake City. With all due respect, you're not alone. I found myself at my non-denominational Bible college last year, asking questions that were a dash controversial, and having my salvation questioned. These were good people but to expand and rethink some things that, for them, just were, was not a worthwhile exercise. There is security in knowing, or at least thinking we know. Yet, if we are to truly know, I wonder if maybe we have to admit that, to some degree, we could be wrong. We need to have the courage to engage other viewpoints and to glean from the wisdom they offer.
There's a little something on the emerging church. Next post I'll address your discussion of truth, science, and God. Let's keep the discussion going!
- andy
Tuesday, December 12, 2006
Thursday, December 07, 2006
Regular Programming cont'd...
Okay, let me see if I can pick up where my thoughts were going here. This time it's pretty early so, once again, I'll not be responsible for the lucidity of my thoughts!
Thus far we've discussed a bit of the schism that has come as a result of the Reformation and the prevailing philosophical and theological thought of the time. Now, let us say, there were very positive things that came via the Reformation as well. The whole uprising, if we may call it that, pointed out a bevy of corruption within the Church and helped to bring change, good change, in many ways. Yet, somewhere along the way we lost sight of a few things.
Fast forward to now where I'll drop my pseudo-history lesson and delve more into some personal opinions and thoughts. In my opinion, Christianity as a religion, and many that would term themselves "Christian", have become arrogant within their system of belief. As we've discussed the idea of "attachment" before, we now see a dire attachment to a theological or doctrinal system. They cling to this system of belief and utilize it in effort to deal with what this world throws at them. The issue comes when the paradox hits, when the black and white merge to form gray. This is the point at which a decision must be made. Do I forage forth now with holes in the proverbial boat or do I have the courage of my convictions to open my hand and to hold even my worldview, my theology, with an uplifted palm to God, admitting that the mind of God is simply greater than the mind of man?
There's more to come but I wanted to keep the conversation going. I hope you are following my train of thought. This feels like it's a serious "stream of conciousness"-type of writing but hopefully, as I prayed before, this is making sense. Just hang in there with me. So, am I making sense thus far? Any comments?
- andy
Thus far we've discussed a bit of the schism that has come as a result of the Reformation and the prevailing philosophical and theological thought of the time. Now, let us say, there were very positive things that came via the Reformation as well. The whole uprising, if we may call it that, pointed out a bevy of corruption within the Church and helped to bring change, good change, in many ways. Yet, somewhere along the way we lost sight of a few things.
Fast forward to now where I'll drop my pseudo-history lesson and delve more into some personal opinions and thoughts. In my opinion, Christianity as a religion, and many that would term themselves "Christian", have become arrogant within their system of belief. As we've discussed the idea of "attachment" before, we now see a dire attachment to a theological or doctrinal system. They cling to this system of belief and utilize it in effort to deal with what this world throws at them. The issue comes when the paradox hits, when the black and white merge to form gray. This is the point at which a decision must be made. Do I forage forth now with holes in the proverbial boat or do I have the courage of my convictions to open my hand and to hold even my worldview, my theology, with an uplifted palm to God, admitting that the mind of God is simply greater than the mind of man?
There's more to come but I wanted to keep the conversation going. I hope you are following my train of thought. This feels like it's a serious "stream of conciousness"-type of writing but hopefully, as I prayed before, this is making sense. Just hang in there with me. So, am I making sense thus far? Any comments?
- andy
Wednesday, December 06, 2006
Tuesday, December 05, 2006
Back to Our Regular Programming
I'm sorry for the delay in responding. Much like your week last week, ours has been crazy here. But, alas, we are back at it again. Due to the hour and the need to treat this topic with care, my post may be incomplete but stay tuned for future episodes which may or may not explain more!
Anyway, on with the show. You asked about the "emerging church" and we will get to that but in somewhat of a roundabout way. Again, I ask you to consider the hour. We can only pray that lucid thoughts will come. Let us begin with your musings upon holistic living, integrating the practice of yoga in particular, and the antagonistic response you received by your Baptist neighbors.
Protestant Christianity has done much to run from it's roots in the ancient church and Catholicism in particular. Ever since the Reformation when Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door in Wittenburg, a great rift has separated the Catholic church from the Protestant. In recent years, particularly after the changes made at Vatican II, the Catholic Church has become far more accepting of their Protestant brothers and sisters, regarding them as true members of the Church and subsequently of the family of God. The Protestant side of the deal hasn't been as welcoming, however. Much superstition and lore surrounds the practices of the Catholic Church. Foreign terms, new imagery, and theoretically divergent theological leanings separate the two. The problem here is that these suppostions are based in ignorance.
This ignorance is not unlike what you're experiencing in good old Lake City. These people are afraid of what they don't know. A human's natural tendency is to be exclusionary. We like the idea that we're in, we know how to get it, and are therefore the gatekeepers. We don't like the idea that it's more complex than that. In all honesty, much of Protestant Christianity is built upon some ground that has become far removed from what it was intended to be.
Okay, I really want to keep going with this but, well, I'm falling asleep and have to be up early tomorrow morning. I'm honestly not sure if this even makes sense thus far but I wanted to keep the conversation going. Tomorrow I'll post some more and clue you in a bit more about the entity known as the "emerging church".
- andy
Anyway, on with the show. You asked about the "emerging church" and we will get to that but in somewhat of a roundabout way. Again, I ask you to consider the hour. We can only pray that lucid thoughts will come. Let us begin with your musings upon holistic living, integrating the practice of yoga in particular, and the antagonistic response you received by your Baptist neighbors.
Protestant Christianity has done much to run from it's roots in the ancient church and Catholicism in particular. Ever since the Reformation when Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door in Wittenburg, a great rift has separated the Catholic church from the Protestant. In recent years, particularly after the changes made at Vatican II, the Catholic Church has become far more accepting of their Protestant brothers and sisters, regarding them as true members of the Church and subsequently of the family of God. The Protestant side of the deal hasn't been as welcoming, however. Much superstition and lore surrounds the practices of the Catholic Church. Foreign terms, new imagery, and theoretically divergent theological leanings separate the two. The problem here is that these suppostions are based in ignorance.
This ignorance is not unlike what you're experiencing in good old Lake City. These people are afraid of what they don't know. A human's natural tendency is to be exclusionary. We like the idea that we're in, we know how to get it, and are therefore the gatekeepers. We don't like the idea that it's more complex than that. In all honesty, much of Protestant Christianity is built upon some ground that has become far removed from what it was intended to be.
Okay, I really want to keep going with this but, well, I'm falling asleep and have to be up early tomorrow morning. I'm honestly not sure if this even makes sense thus far but I wanted to keep the conversation going. Tomorrow I'll post some more and clue you in a bit more about the entity known as the "emerging church".
- andy
Friday, December 01, 2006
The mind is an amazing thing ...
A few posts ago you mentioned the "emerging church"...
[Andy Wrote] The practitioners within this movement, sensing some of the same disconnect we have experienced, have sought to renew the move of faith and worship in that holistic sense, even within the gathering together. Many have mined the ancient practices of the early church in order to renew these things. Pulling together a number of elements that focus on multiple senses and experiences, worship and gathering together can become an interactive, integrated time instead of a lecture.
You told me to let you know if I wanted to hear more. Well you have peaked my curiosity so please, do tell more. Now this may seem completely random but I would like to share a story with you. It may seem unrelated at first but it actually has a lot to do with the topics at hand. (note: names have been changed to protect the innocent, guilty and all involved) The topics of "My Religious Journey", "Truth" and "My Perfect Church".
I found myself, due to tragic circumstances, living here in Lake City a few years back. Having given up my career as an aerospace engineer to follow my husband here, I found myself in an interesting place in life. What was I going to do with myself? My whole life all I ever wanted to be was an aerospace engineer (and then an astronaut if the opportunity ever arose). There's not much of a market for that job here in LC. So I had to look deep inside and ask myself, who am I outside of that label? What else am I passionate enough about to take on as a career? (i'll try to shorten this up a bit otherwise it could turn into a novel) Long story short, I love yoga. Ever since I took my very first yoga class back in 1998 I have been in love with it. (there are so many reasons I would like to share here but alas, we are not discussing yoga) So I went to a weekend-long teacher training workshop. Part of my yoga teacher training required me to teach 8 hours of yoga for free in the community. I thought "what a great idea". A few weeks later I was introduced to Marsha who runs a facility in the area. Marsha expressed interest in me teaching a class for her until I told her what I wanted to teach was .... drum roll please .... y-o-g-a. She politely told me that there would be no yoga at her gym "because of the whole eastern way of thought". I was honestly speechless. Well I ended up teaching math and science at the high school here in LC (yes, i said the high school). I asked around in the teachers lounge one morning about how I could go about setting up free yoga classes either before or after school to get the hours I needed. Well let's just say that idea got shot down very quickly. I was told that I may be able to get away with it if I didn't use the "y word" ... I couldn't call it "yoga". This was also the same teachers lounge where I found myself in the middle of about six women talking bad about the Catholic church and discovered just how negatively Baptists feel about the Catholic church. The funny part was when I announced to the group that I "grew up Catholic" and got up and walked out. I was also later told that Marsha is "just very religious". (and they actually thought they were explaining things!) Something else to note, this high school had "motivational" religion-based assemblies. Now i'm not saying this is a bad thing, i'm just saying I was very surprised to find that allowed in a public high school in a day and time where parents fight to keep the word "God" out of the Pledge of Allegience. And I wasn't allowed to teach yoga.
Yoga is/can be a very spiritual practice to help you get in tune with your body and mind. Our body is the temple God gave us and I think we should take great care of it. Yoga is one way in which I try to do this. Yoga is not a religion and does not conflict with any main-stream religion that I know of. (are there any religions that tell you not to take care of your body and mind?) Is this making any sense yet? Your words on the holistic expression of faith and your "emerging church" along with your request for me to share my religious journey brought up these thoughts and memories.
Now on "My Truth" ... The bottom line for me is that God is why we are here. (Sometimes I feel like maybe we are all just one big science experiment in a fish bowl.) In explaining the "hows" and "whys" I believe there is both a scientific and a faith based explanation for everything and that instead of contradicting each other they actually go hand-in-hand. Some people need to have blind faith while others, like myself, want some sort of scientific evidence. Not to contradict Jesus or religion but to give us something to wrap our scientific mind around because that is how we think. Because that is how God wants us to think. Questions and discussions lead to an opening of the mind, a broadening of the horizons. I don't think God wants to keep us dumb. I think he wants to see how much we can figure out. He wants us to evolve. I think we need to open our minds a great deal more to be able to fully grasp the concept of "being". We are so small yet so significant in the grand scheme of things. And we only use what percent of our brain? (i can't remember but i know it's a small number) Maybe one day we will unlock the true power God has given us and be able to wrap our heads around this amazing thing he has created. Maybe he knows we just aren't ready for that yet. And as a side note on the topic of evolution, I truly think evolution and creationism go hand-in-hand, just different ways of looking at it.
Well this has gotten pretty heavy and it is very late. My brain needs to rest. I'm looking forward to hearing more on the "emerging church". I will share my religious journey soon, in two parts. The first being my history of church attendance and the second being my personal spiritual journey. What about yours?
~Celena
[Andy Wrote] The practitioners within this movement, sensing some of the same disconnect we have experienced, have sought to renew the move of faith and worship in that holistic sense, even within the gathering together. Many have mined the ancient practices of the early church in order to renew these things. Pulling together a number of elements that focus on multiple senses and experiences, worship and gathering together can become an interactive, integrated time instead of a lecture.
You told me to let you know if I wanted to hear more. Well you have peaked my curiosity so please, do tell more. Now this may seem completely random but I would like to share a story with you. It may seem unrelated at first but it actually has a lot to do with the topics at hand. (note: names have been changed to protect the innocent, guilty and all involved) The topics of "My Religious Journey", "Truth" and "My Perfect Church".
I found myself, due to tragic circumstances, living here in Lake City a few years back. Having given up my career as an aerospace engineer to follow my husband here, I found myself in an interesting place in life. What was I going to do with myself? My whole life all I ever wanted to be was an aerospace engineer (and then an astronaut if the opportunity ever arose). There's not much of a market for that job here in LC. So I had to look deep inside and ask myself, who am I outside of that label? What else am I passionate enough about to take on as a career? (i'll try to shorten this up a bit otherwise it could turn into a novel) Long story short, I love yoga. Ever since I took my very first yoga class back in 1998 I have been in love with it. (there are so many reasons I would like to share here but alas, we are not discussing yoga) So I went to a weekend-long teacher training workshop. Part of my yoga teacher training required me to teach 8 hours of yoga for free in the community. I thought "what a great idea". A few weeks later I was introduced to Marsha who runs a facility in the area. Marsha expressed interest in me teaching a class for her until I told her what I wanted to teach was .... drum roll please .... y-o-g-a. She politely told me that there would be no yoga at her gym "because of the whole eastern way of thought". I was honestly speechless. Well I ended up teaching math and science at the high school here in LC (yes, i said the high school). I asked around in the teachers lounge one morning about how I could go about setting up free yoga classes either before or after school to get the hours I needed. Well let's just say that idea got shot down very quickly. I was told that I may be able to get away with it if I didn't use the "y word" ... I couldn't call it "yoga". This was also the same teachers lounge where I found myself in the middle of about six women talking bad about the Catholic church and discovered just how negatively Baptists feel about the Catholic church. The funny part was when I announced to the group that I "grew up Catholic" and got up and walked out. I was also later told that Marsha is "just very religious". (and they actually thought they were explaining things!) Something else to note, this high school had "motivational" religion-based assemblies. Now i'm not saying this is a bad thing, i'm just saying I was very surprised to find that allowed in a public high school in a day and time where parents fight to keep the word "God" out of the Pledge of Allegience. And I wasn't allowed to teach yoga.
Yoga is/can be a very spiritual practice to help you get in tune with your body and mind. Our body is the temple God gave us and I think we should take great care of it. Yoga is one way in which I try to do this. Yoga is not a religion and does not conflict with any main-stream religion that I know of. (are there any religions that tell you not to take care of your body and mind?) Is this making any sense yet? Your words on the holistic expression of faith and your "emerging church" along with your request for me to share my religious journey brought up these thoughts and memories.
Now on "My Truth" ... The bottom line for me is that God is why we are here. (Sometimes I feel like maybe we are all just one big science experiment in a fish bowl.) In explaining the "hows" and "whys" I believe there is both a scientific and a faith based explanation for everything and that instead of contradicting each other they actually go hand-in-hand. Some people need to have blind faith while others, like myself, want some sort of scientific evidence. Not to contradict Jesus or religion but to give us something to wrap our scientific mind around because that is how we think. Because that is how God wants us to think. Questions and discussions lead to an opening of the mind, a broadening of the horizons. I don't think God wants to keep us dumb. I think he wants to see how much we can figure out. He wants us to evolve. I think we need to open our minds a great deal more to be able to fully grasp the concept of "being". We are so small yet so significant in the grand scheme of things. And we only use what percent of our brain? (i can't remember but i know it's a small number) Maybe one day we will unlock the true power God has given us and be able to wrap our heads around this amazing thing he has created. Maybe he knows we just aren't ready for that yet. And as a side note on the topic of evolution, I truly think evolution and creationism go hand-in-hand, just different ways of looking at it.
Well this has gotten pretty heavy and it is very late. My brain needs to rest. I'm looking forward to hearing more on the "emerging church". I will share my religious journey soon, in two parts. The first being my history of church attendance and the second being my personal spiritual journey. What about yours?
~Celena
Wednesday, November 29, 2006
Suggested Reading
While I anxiously await your treatise regarding the place of "truth" in our lives, I thought I'd post a link to that book I suggested the other day. De Mello's work here deals directly with the issues we have regarding attachment and the consequences inherent. While reading this, I had a few moments wherein I felt like Neo coming to grips with the reality of the Matrix, but it's a journey worth taking. I highly suggest this work.
Awareness - Anthony De Mello
- andy
Monday, November 27, 2006
Me
I just sat here and typed up a really long post and blogger ate it. That's right ... it's gone. I don't know whether to cry or just walk away. I think i'll try to retype the main points for now...
My mind is too full of other things at present to continue with the posts below. I had a crazy week. It was happy, sad, dissapointing, fun, reflective, argumentative, frustrating, busy, and many other things as well. As my mind absorbs and heals from the craziness I find myself reflecting and wanting to make some changes. Bottom line: I'm done. I'm done doing too much. I'm done doing everything I can do because I think I should. I sat yesterday and did almost nothing but enjoy time with my sons and my husband. We watched movies and football, ate leftovers, put up the Christmas tree, played with the kids, and I even knitted for a while. It was great.
The comment Rachel left about "could do's" vs. "should do's" really had an impact on me. I've realized over the past week how many things I put on myself that just aren't necessary. I have to come to terms with the fact that it's okay to say "i'm a mom" instead of "i'm a mom-aerospace-engineer-fabric-artist-business-owner-craft-fair-boother-math-tutor". It's okay to just be me, Celena. I don't have to do it all just because I can. It's okay to slow down and smell the roses, so to speak. And I don't have to try so hard to be friends with people just because our lives have brought us together. I don't have to hide who I am so that more people like me. I'm done with all of that, at least for a while. I'm going to enjoy the "present". I'm going to enjoy my time with my children and husband. And next year, instead of having a craft booth two days after Thanksgiving, i'm going to be out with the crowds shopping and drinking coffee and putting up our Christmas tree like everybody else.
I'll get back to the subject of Truth soon. I find it an ironic one, being that I find it is different for everyone. I don't believe there is one single truth and that, to me, is Truth. And as you requested Andy, I will share my religious journey with you. As I sat and reflected on this a bit before my week of craziness I realized something quite profound about myself. Why is it that I have more negative memories about the past than positive ones? Is it my nature? Is it the circumstances of my childhood? How can I change this? My new challenge: To make the positive/happy/fun times of my life have a stronger impact on my memory than the negative/sad/depressing/stressful times. Because all we really have is the present and our memories. And I'm going to spend more time enjoying my husband, my children and my friends because you never know when God is going to take those people away from you.
To all of my friends ... I hope you find the time to enjoy these things yourselves. I know i've read emails from at least four of you over the past week that started with an apology about how life is so busy and it's hard to find the time, etc. I know i've been guilty of this as well. I hope this holiday season and new year bring with it a sense of peace for everyone and the ability to slow down enough to enjoy life. The little things in life are too precious to let slip away. Go have a cup of coffee with a friend, sit on the floor and play with your child, call that special friend you haven't talked to in a long time, lay on the couch with your spouse and just be.
~Celena
My mind is too full of other things at present to continue with the posts below. I had a crazy week. It was happy, sad, dissapointing, fun, reflective, argumentative, frustrating, busy, and many other things as well. As my mind absorbs and heals from the craziness I find myself reflecting and wanting to make some changes. Bottom line: I'm done. I'm done doing too much. I'm done doing everything I can do because I think I should. I sat yesterday and did almost nothing but enjoy time with my sons and my husband. We watched movies and football, ate leftovers, put up the Christmas tree, played with the kids, and I even knitted for a while. It was great.
The comment Rachel left about "could do's" vs. "should do's" really had an impact on me. I've realized over the past week how many things I put on myself that just aren't necessary. I have to come to terms with the fact that it's okay to say "i'm a mom" instead of "i'm a mom-aerospace-engineer-fabric-artist-business-owner-craft-fair-boother-math-tutor". It's okay to just be me, Celena. I don't have to do it all just because I can. It's okay to slow down and smell the roses, so to speak. And I don't have to try so hard to be friends with people just because our lives have brought us together. I don't have to hide who I am so that more people like me. I'm done with all of that, at least for a while. I'm going to enjoy the "present". I'm going to enjoy my time with my children and husband. And next year, instead of having a craft booth two days after Thanksgiving, i'm going to be out with the crowds shopping and drinking coffee and putting up our Christmas tree like everybody else.
I'll get back to the subject of Truth soon. I find it an ironic one, being that I find it is different for everyone. I don't believe there is one single truth and that, to me, is Truth. And as you requested Andy, I will share my religious journey with you. As I sat and reflected on this a bit before my week of craziness I realized something quite profound about myself. Why is it that I have more negative memories about the past than positive ones? Is it my nature? Is it the circumstances of my childhood? How can I change this? My new challenge: To make the positive/happy/fun times of my life have a stronger impact on my memory than the negative/sad/depressing/stressful times. Because all we really have is the present and our memories. And I'm going to spend more time enjoying my husband, my children and my friends because you never know when God is going to take those people away from you.
To all of my friends ... I hope you find the time to enjoy these things yourselves. I know i've read emails from at least four of you over the past week that started with an apology about how life is so busy and it's hard to find the time, etc. I know i've been guilty of this as well. I hope this holiday season and new year bring with it a sense of peace for everyone and the ability to slow down enough to enjoy life. The little things in life are too precious to let slip away. Go have a cup of coffee with a friend, sit on the floor and play with your child, call that special friend you haven't talked to in a long time, lay on the couch with your spouse and just be.
~Celena
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
Tossing Quotes Into the Ring
Thought I'd share this quote with you which I think is very appropriate, especially given the nature of our conversation. Hope you like it.
"A very popular error: having the courage of one's convictions; rather it is a matter of having the courage for an attack on one's convictions." - Friedrich Nietzche
- andy
"A very popular error: having the courage of one's convictions; rather it is a matter of having the courage for an attack on one's convictions." - Friedrich Nietzche
- andy
Tuesday, November 21, 2006
A Bonus Question
Hey, while we continue this discussion of faith and theology and science and whatever else might pop up here, I wonder, and I do think it's somewhat appropriate, if you'd offer us a look at your faith journey. I'd like to hear where you've come from and where you're really at. I realize that some of our discussion has already held some of that but I've found through some practices of my own that going back and really retracing the steps of where we've come truly does help us to see the present a bit more clearly. And I know that I know some of it, actually a lot of it since we've known each other forever, but I'd like to hear it in your own words. If you'd like, I'll share mine too. You show me yours and I'll show you mine! :)
- andy
- andy
Church Continued
Your journey and your thoughts on this matter of church and faith and God all lead me to think that this could be a very interesting discussion! I empathize with your being in a place whereby people categorize you by what church you attend as opposed to who you are. Church attendence can be a very good thing and, in some times, can be very bad. But that's another story for another time. We're talking about two things really, the "perfect church", and to some degree, what that church holds to.
Let me comment first on your thoughts regarding the "perfect church". I totally resonate with you on the areas of not judging one another and of a holistic approach to spirituality and faith. Church, as I understand it, is to be a safe place that we can come, really be ourselves, worship, and heal. Far too often we go into a church setting with preconceived notions of how to act and of what people will say. Those preconceptions lead us to play our cards very close to our vest and we refuse to admit that we're the ones with a problem. If someone asks how we are doing, we will reply with our best Sunday smile, "Just fine, thanks!". Nevermind the fact that we just got done arguing and fighting with our significant other the whole way there and are wondering if the relationship even has a chance. And Lord, heaven forbid you struggle with something of the sexual nature! These things just aren't spoken of! Now, I will admit that there are exceptions to these rules. In some ways, this is a parody and an overstatement. But, the best of parodies ring of truth.
The holistic expression of faith is one that I'm coming more and more to embrace. Far too long Christianity in particular has focused solely on the mental aspects of the faith journey. It has taught that we are to cram more and more knowledge into our heads and that this will make us better people. In some respects, this is true as anyone who has seen one of those NBC "The More You Know" spots will tell you. But, there is more to a person than the mental state. We must focus on mind, body and spirit. The three, much as the biblical understanding of God is seen in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are unmistakably connected. I'm very encouraged by some movements within what is known in some circles as the "emerging church" toward this. The practitioners within this movement, sensing some of the same disconnect we have experienced, have sought to renew the move of faith and worship in that holistic sense, even within the gathering together. Many have mined the ancient practices of the early church in order to renew these things. Pulling together a number of elements that focus on multiple senses and experiences, worship and gathering together can become an interactive, integrated time instead of a lecture. (I could go on some more here but I'm not sure if I need to. If you're interested in hearing more, holler!)
Now we come to the second part of the discussion which involves some of your thoughts on the nature of God and what we believe which are intrinisically connected to your "perfect church". I totally understand your point regarding being a scientist. You are rational, logical, and have always been good at the math! :) That being said, I fully appreciate your rejection of blind faith. I also agree that science and religion are very like minded things. Both, at their very essence, are a pursuit of truth. They seek to answer the big questions of "How?" and "Why?" in order to provide us with knowledge and some sense of purpose.
I guess where I'm going with this is to ask the oh-so-profound question that Pilate asked of Christ, "What is truth?" This is a critical question in this discussion. If we are all right, then, in some ways, there is no truth. Truth has now become a relative commodity. We now become pragmatists living out our lives with simply the thought that whatever works for us is what we'll believe. Now, there is a lot more to this discussion for us to throw around. This is the time I wish this were a telephone conversation that folks could listen in on or a face to face because I think we'll be here a while.
I guess for now I'll leave you with that question: "What is truth?" What is true for you? Do you believe that there is a standard for truth? Let's build from there!
Enjoying the chats!
- andy
Let me comment first on your thoughts regarding the "perfect church". I totally resonate with you on the areas of not judging one another and of a holistic approach to spirituality and faith. Church, as I understand it, is to be a safe place that we can come, really be ourselves, worship, and heal. Far too often we go into a church setting with preconceived notions of how to act and of what people will say. Those preconceptions lead us to play our cards very close to our vest and we refuse to admit that we're the ones with a problem. If someone asks how we are doing, we will reply with our best Sunday smile, "Just fine, thanks!". Nevermind the fact that we just got done arguing and fighting with our significant other the whole way there and are wondering if the relationship even has a chance. And Lord, heaven forbid you struggle with something of the sexual nature! These things just aren't spoken of! Now, I will admit that there are exceptions to these rules. In some ways, this is a parody and an overstatement. But, the best of parodies ring of truth.
The holistic expression of faith is one that I'm coming more and more to embrace. Far too long Christianity in particular has focused solely on the mental aspects of the faith journey. It has taught that we are to cram more and more knowledge into our heads and that this will make us better people. In some respects, this is true as anyone who has seen one of those NBC "The More You Know" spots will tell you. But, there is more to a person than the mental state. We must focus on mind, body and spirit. The three, much as the biblical understanding of God is seen in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are unmistakably connected. I'm very encouraged by some movements within what is known in some circles as the "emerging church" toward this. The practitioners within this movement, sensing some of the same disconnect we have experienced, have sought to renew the move of faith and worship in that holistic sense, even within the gathering together. Many have mined the ancient practices of the early church in order to renew these things. Pulling together a number of elements that focus on multiple senses and experiences, worship and gathering together can become an interactive, integrated time instead of a lecture. (I could go on some more here but I'm not sure if I need to. If you're interested in hearing more, holler!)
Now we come to the second part of the discussion which involves some of your thoughts on the nature of God and what we believe which are intrinisically connected to your "perfect church". I totally understand your point regarding being a scientist. You are rational, logical, and have always been good at the math! :) That being said, I fully appreciate your rejection of blind faith. I also agree that science and religion are very like minded things. Both, at their very essence, are a pursuit of truth. They seek to answer the big questions of "How?" and "Why?" in order to provide us with knowledge and some sense of purpose.
I guess where I'm going with this is to ask the oh-so-profound question that Pilate asked of Christ, "What is truth?" This is a critical question in this discussion. If we are all right, then, in some ways, there is no truth. Truth has now become a relative commodity. We now become pragmatists living out our lives with simply the thought that whatever works for us is what we'll believe. Now, there is a lot more to this discussion for us to throw around. This is the time I wish this were a telephone conversation that folks could listen in on or a face to face because I think we'll be here a while.
I guess for now I'll leave you with that question: "What is truth?" What is true for you? Do you believe that there is a standard for truth? Let's build from there!
Enjoying the chats!
- andy
Monday, November 20, 2006
More Quotes
I finally found the exact quote I was refering to back in my first post on friendship. Here it is:
I like these too:
"Some people come into our lives and quickly go. Some stay for awhile and leavefootprints on our hearts. And we are never, ever the same."
- Author Unknown
- Author Unknown
I like these too:
"A friend is a person with whom I may be sincere. Before him I may think aloud."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Many people will walk in and out of your life, but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart."
~Eleanor Roosevelt
Friends
A friend is someone we turn to when our spirits need a lift, A friends is someone we treasure for our friendship is a gift. A friend is someone who fills our lives with beauty, joy, and grace And makes the whole world we live in a better and happier place.
A friend is someone we turn to when our spirits need a lift, A friends is someone we treasure for our friendship is a gift. A friend is someone who fills our lives with beauty, joy, and grace And makes the whole world we live in a better and happier place.
-Jean Kyler McManus
~Celena
My Perfect Church
I know that was a heavy question out of the blue but that's how my mind works. One thought leads to another which leads to another and BAMM! There's a big question for you. :-) I was thinking about what you said in an earlier post how one of the first questions people ask you when you meet is "what do you do?". I jokingly thought to myself how here in Lake City it is usually closely followed by, if not preceeded by, "what church do you go to?". I've never lived anywhere like this before. I'm sure there are plenty of other communities closely bound together by their churches but this is the first one i've lived in. People don't ask "if" you go, they just assume you go.
I've had the great opportunity to live in five different towns in this great country of ours. I wish I could say that number was ten or even fifteen. I love the thrill of moving somewhere brand new and figuring it all out. Each community is so unique. But before I start reminiscing about my days in a town that was actually awake at night and had more malls than I could shop at in a day, let me get back to this church thing ...
Since i've lived in Lake City i've had my thoughts on church tested by many people. I've been invited to go to church more times in the past three years than in the other twenty-seven years of my life combined. Brett and I talk about it and we do want to "belong" to a church eventually. But we want it to be the church that is right for us and that we are comfortable with. I know some people think i'm being too picky or may even think the devil is invading my thoughts but here's the thing: I'm not going to force myself to go to a church that doesn't align with my thinking just so that I can answer the question of "what church do you go to?".
I've met some wonderful people with great views on God and Christianity. I've had some great talks. I've also met people with very different views from my own who think it is their mission to get me to church. And I know that they do it because they care and because they think and are taught that I am going to go to hell because i'm not active in church. And I appreciate the fact that they care enough about me to reach out like that, I really do.
I've been given books on Christianity by at least three people (off the top of my head) and I have actually read most of them. And I enjoy reading them. I am and always have been very interested in learning about different religions. I think it is fascinating that we live in a world with so many different religions and people that feel so strongly about their religion that they are willing to die for it. And here is where my question arose ...
As I sat watching Joel Osteen on TV one morning I found myself wishing that a church existed here in Lake City that I felt comfortable with. One that I could find like-minded people in. I tend to be very scientific minded (engineer .. go figure). Some people have blind faith because that's what works for them. I'm a thinker and always have been. I can't just have blind faith. I have to question. That's part of who I am. So I got to thinking ... how would I define my perfect church, in a perfect world?
A couple of weeks later a friend of mine called that grew up here in Lake City. She now lives a couple hours south of here. She was telling me about this great church that she and her husband have been going to for about a year now. It sounded great. It sounded like something that I would really like to go to. I told her that sounds very close to what I would like to find in Lake City. And she laughed ... because she knows more than I, having grown up here, that for some reason that type of church does not exist here. I wonder what it is about Lake City that makes it this way. Is it the small town thing? Is it that LC is full of people who have never lived anywhere else in their life? I'm not sure.
So once again I found myself dreaming of a perfect world where we could all have "our own" perfect church. One where we all accept each other and are all open-minded. One where it doesn't matter how or what you believe God to be ... just that you believe. You see I believe, and let me comment here that I know some of you will think negatively of this but i'm going to share anyway and hope I don't offend anyone too badly, that everyone has it right. How can one little section of Christianity have it right and everyone else is wrong and going to hell? Who has it right? The Baptists? Catholics? End-timers (sorry had to throw that in there, don't let me get started on that whole thing)? What about Hinduism and Judaism?
That's just it ... I think everyone that believes there is a higher power is right. Because there is a higher power. We understand it in the way that we can. And we are all different. And here is where my scientific background comes in ... just think about our planet, and our solar system, and our universe. How can we ever get a firm grip in our minds as to how that all works and how it came to be. The fact is that it is all above us. We, as scientists, attempt to explain and understand the workings of the universe. And as a species we are very impressive. We sent men to the moon (no it wasn't a tv set), we have people living in space, we've sent spacecraft to take pictures of other planets, etc. But how did it all get here? In my mind, science and religion are very closely related. With all that is out there, is the planet Earth the only place where life exists? I find that hard to believe. And to some people that makes them think i'm going to hell. To borrow a phrase here .... "why can't we all just get along?".
My mind is racing with several follow-up thoughts involving the most popular book around ... The Bible. But my kids are calling so I must leave that for a later post. Andy, you asked me to answer the question as well and here is what I have so far ...
My perfect church would be:
... a place where everyone is accepted no matter how they believe, just as long as they believe ...
...a place where people can openly discuss their different beliefs and find enough common ground to see that we may all be right ...
... a place where don't judge each other because that should only be done by our maker ...
... a place that balances the physical with the spiritual (which is why I like Joel Osteen)...
... a place that integrates yoga with its service, maybe a short series of breathing exercises at the beginning to open the mind and a relaxation practice at the end to let everything sink in (just thought about this and added this last one a couple of hours after posting this) ...
Until next time...
~Celena
***Sarah, as my most Christian/religious/spiritual non-church-going friend, if you read this I would love to hear your answer to our question. Please leave it as a comment to this post.***
I've had the great opportunity to live in five different towns in this great country of ours. I wish I could say that number was ten or even fifteen. I love the thrill of moving somewhere brand new and figuring it all out. Each community is so unique. But before I start reminiscing about my days in a town that was actually awake at night and had more malls than I could shop at in a day, let me get back to this church thing ...
Since i've lived in Lake City i've had my thoughts on church tested by many people. I've been invited to go to church more times in the past three years than in the other twenty-seven years of my life combined. Brett and I talk about it and we do want to "belong" to a church eventually. But we want it to be the church that is right for us and that we are comfortable with. I know some people think i'm being too picky or may even think the devil is invading my thoughts but here's the thing: I'm not going to force myself to go to a church that doesn't align with my thinking just so that I can answer the question of "what church do you go to?".
I've met some wonderful people with great views on God and Christianity. I've had some great talks. I've also met people with very different views from my own who think it is their mission to get me to church. And I know that they do it because they care and because they think and are taught that I am going to go to hell because i'm not active in church. And I appreciate the fact that they care enough about me to reach out like that, I really do.
I've been given books on Christianity by at least three people (off the top of my head) and I have actually read most of them. And I enjoy reading them. I am and always have been very interested in learning about different religions. I think it is fascinating that we live in a world with so many different religions and people that feel so strongly about their religion that they are willing to die for it. And here is where my question arose ...
As I sat watching Joel Osteen on TV one morning I found myself wishing that a church existed here in Lake City that I felt comfortable with. One that I could find like-minded people in. I tend to be very scientific minded (engineer .. go figure). Some people have blind faith because that's what works for them. I'm a thinker and always have been. I can't just have blind faith. I have to question. That's part of who I am. So I got to thinking ... how would I define my perfect church, in a perfect world?
A couple of weeks later a friend of mine called that grew up here in Lake City. She now lives a couple hours south of here. She was telling me about this great church that she and her husband have been going to for about a year now. It sounded great. It sounded like something that I would really like to go to. I told her that sounds very close to what I would like to find in Lake City. And she laughed ... because she knows more than I, having grown up here, that for some reason that type of church does not exist here. I wonder what it is about Lake City that makes it this way. Is it the small town thing? Is it that LC is full of people who have never lived anywhere else in their life? I'm not sure.
So once again I found myself dreaming of a perfect world where we could all have "our own" perfect church. One where we all accept each other and are all open-minded. One where it doesn't matter how or what you believe God to be ... just that you believe. You see I believe, and let me comment here that I know some of you will think negatively of this but i'm going to share anyway and hope I don't offend anyone too badly, that everyone has it right. How can one little section of Christianity have it right and everyone else is wrong and going to hell? Who has it right? The Baptists? Catholics? End-timers (sorry had to throw that in there, don't let me get started on that whole thing)? What about Hinduism and Judaism?
That's just it ... I think everyone that believes there is a higher power is right. Because there is a higher power. We understand it in the way that we can. And we are all different. And here is where my scientific background comes in ... just think about our planet, and our solar system, and our universe. How can we ever get a firm grip in our minds as to how that all works and how it came to be. The fact is that it is all above us. We, as scientists, attempt to explain and understand the workings of the universe. And as a species we are very impressive. We sent men to the moon (no it wasn't a tv set), we have people living in space, we've sent spacecraft to take pictures of other planets, etc. But how did it all get here? In my mind, science and religion are very closely related. With all that is out there, is the planet Earth the only place where life exists? I find that hard to believe. And to some people that makes them think i'm going to hell. To borrow a phrase here .... "why can't we all just get along?".
My mind is racing with several follow-up thoughts involving the most popular book around ... The Bible. But my kids are calling so I must leave that for a later post. Andy, you asked me to answer the question as well and here is what I have so far ...
My perfect church would be:
... a place where everyone is accepted no matter how they believe, just as long as they believe ...
...a place where people can openly discuss their different beliefs and find enough common ground to see that we may all be right ...
... a place where don't judge each other because that should only be done by our maker ...
... a place that balances the physical with the spiritual (which is why I like Joel Osteen)...
... a place that integrates yoga with its service, maybe a short series of breathing exercises at the beginning to open the mind and a relaxation practice at the end to let everything sink in (just thought about this and added this last one a couple of hours after posting this) ...
Until next time...
~Celena
***Sarah, as my most Christian/religious/spiritual non-church-going friend, if you read this I would love to hear your answer to our question. Please leave it as a comment to this post.***
Sunday, November 19, 2006
Perfect Church?
Let me first comment on your previous post before diving into answering this oh-so-heavy question.
I like the term "time famine". It's a good one although I don't necessarily think we're really in a famine. Famine implies that we truly don't have the time. I'm not sure that's the case. More often than not, much as Rachel replied, it's more a matter of our consciously choosing to set aside those "shoulds". The ironic thing is that our "shoulds" are almost always the results of outside thinking. I should be at this career point. I should keep the house clean in case X stops by. I should do this and that because if I don't do it, it won't get done. We place too much emphasis upon externals and neglect the things that really matter, our family, our faith. Learning to let go of those attachments is so difficult, I think, simply because we have bought into the lie of being defined by them. I am "insert career position" instead of allowing, in my case, my identity to be found in my faith in God and in who I am in Him. Just a few thoughts there.
Okay, on to the church question. Didn't think we'd dive into the theological realm so soon but, well, here we are. This is a huge question that has loomed large in my mind for the past two and a half years since I left my youth ministry position. Perhaps I can share that story later if anyone is interested in background information because that experience definately colors this response. Anyway, it's a great question. Without diving in and offering Scripture references and whatnot for each and every point, let me offer some thoughts.
I like the term "time famine". It's a good one although I don't necessarily think we're really in a famine. Famine implies that we truly don't have the time. I'm not sure that's the case. More often than not, much as Rachel replied, it's more a matter of our consciously choosing to set aside those "shoulds". The ironic thing is that our "shoulds" are almost always the results of outside thinking. I should be at this career point. I should keep the house clean in case X stops by. I should do this and that because if I don't do it, it won't get done. We place too much emphasis upon externals and neglect the things that really matter, our family, our faith. Learning to let go of those attachments is so difficult, I think, simply because we have bought into the lie of being defined by them. I am "insert career position" instead of allowing, in my case, my identity to be found in my faith in God and in who I am in Him. Just a few thoughts there.
Okay, on to the church question. Didn't think we'd dive into the theological realm so soon but, well, here we are. This is a huge question that has loomed large in my mind for the past two and a half years since I left my youth ministry position. Perhaps I can share that story later if anyone is interested in background information because that experience definately colors this response. Anyway, it's a great question. Without diving in and offering Scripture references and whatnot for each and every point, let me offer some thoughts.
I would like a church that:
Valued people more than programs
Admitted that it has doubts and fears
Encouraged healing and restoration over judgment
Was honest about all sin, not just "pet" sins
Embraced a holistic understanding of faith, embracing mind, body, and soul
Encouraged and embraced the arts, seeing the hand of God in the works of His creation
Loves God and loves people
These ideas seem simple, a bit cliche, and maybe even a hair trite but the honest truth is that I'd be thrilled to find a church that truly lived out these ideas. In fairness, many congregations honestly do pursue these things and find themselves hamstrung by the very imperfect people you spoke of. It's true. Where there are people, there is no perfect church. Yet, we must strive to create a community of people who truly do seek to embody the teaching and the life of Jesus, who seemingly looks a lot different than what we know of Christianity.
What about you? Your faith journey definately has been different than mine. I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on this!
- Andy
Saturday, November 18, 2006
A Question for You ...
Andy, how would you describe your perfect church? Put aside the fact that we don't live in a perfect world and that churches are run by people who, by nature, are not perfect.
Anxiously awaiting,
~Celena
Anxiously awaiting,
~Celena
Friday, November 17, 2006
A Time Famine
Wow, great post Andy. I love the words to that song. It's funny you mentioned the "trying to do too much thing". In our usual fashion, you and I were on the same wave length last night .... scary, I know. I found myself with some free time, which doesn't happen very often. My student called to cancel our tutoring session and I found myself here with both boys asleep (another rare occurance) and no engineering jobs to do. Oh what to do with my time? I have a difficult time sticking with one thing at a time anyway and rarely ever have time to just pick what I "want" to do instead of which thing I "have" to do that is most pressing. So after about 30 minutes of running circles around myself reorganizing this and cleaning that I decided to sit and do one of the things I love the most ... knitting. But could I stay on one project? Of course not. I sat and read a knitting book for a few minutes then I started knitting Brody's Christmas stocking and then I worked on his sweater for a few minutes and then I worked on my sock for a few minutes and then I just had to stop myself. What in the world was I doing? Has my life gotten so busy that I can't handle two hours of peace and quiet doing something leisurely? Apparently so. I sat there thinking about how busy life gets and how we are living in the time of "doing too much". I sat there thinking how nice it would have been if I had lived two hundred years ago and all my worries would be watching the children while I cook stew over the fire and knit socks for the family. Oh how peaceful those times must have been. I'm sure they had their worries but life definitely ran at a slower pace.
After a little day-dreaming I picked up one of my favorite books that I turn to when I can't slow down. It's called "Everyday Serenity: Meditations for People Who Do Too Much" by David Kundtz. Each page has a quote and then a short discussion about the quote. In my usual way of never starting at the beginning of anything I just randomly turned to a page somewhere in the book. I was so struck by what I read being about exactly what I was thinking of that I marked the page and set it by the computer so that I could address it here. So I get up this morning and read your post ... and again I am struck! What is going on here? I'll share the post with you all and maybe you will be "struck" as well.
Taking Time to See
"Nobody sees a flower, really -- it's so small -- we haven't time, and to see takes time ..."
--Georgia O'Keeffe
"These are the days of the time famine," says Odette Pollar in her newspaper column aimed at helping people work smarter. She cites some interesting statistics. According to a Harris survey, the amount of leisure time enjoyed by the average American has shrunk 37 percent since 1973. In the same period, the average work week, including commute time, has jumped from fewer than 41 hours to nearly 47 hours, and in some cases up to 80 hours a week.
I like the term time famine, and starvation is certainly an appropriate analogy for our situation. Many of us are starved for time and we have a passionate desire to be fed. We are starving for those moments of solitude when we can just hang out, cleaning out a drawer or looking through old letters, with no pressure or guilt. Our starvation deprives us of the nutrition that those in-between times used to give us: a feeling of centeredness in our lives, of awareness of our spiritual needs and those of our families, a confident sense of self-knowledge.
Georgia O'Keeffe's words ring authentic as you look at her paintings of flowers. She spent many hours "doing nothing" with a flower. No time famine for her. Her artistic life in the desert was a statement against the idea. And we continue to benefit from the results.
In a famine -- at least in the best of situations -- those who have help those who have not. Thus a question presents itself: Where are you in the time famine, among the haves or the have-nots? Sometimes one, sometimes the other?
For have-nots: Today, stop and really look at a flower.
For haves: Help someone else to do the same.
Anyone out there not in the time famine? Speaking of which, I better close for now because i've got a lot of things to do today ... go figure!
And yes Andy, i'm definitely "digging this". :-) I just hope our readers are as well. And speaking of readers, check out Sandy's comment on my first post. She found the quote I was looking for. (Thanks Sandy!)
Until next time ...
~Celena
After a little day-dreaming I picked up one of my favorite books that I turn to when I can't slow down. It's called "Everyday Serenity: Meditations for People Who Do Too Much" by David Kundtz. Each page has a quote and then a short discussion about the quote. In my usual way of never starting at the beginning of anything I just randomly turned to a page somewhere in the book. I was so struck by what I read being about exactly what I was thinking of that I marked the page and set it by the computer so that I could address it here. So I get up this morning and read your post ... and again I am struck! What is going on here? I'll share the post with you all and maybe you will be "struck" as well.
Taking Time to See
"Nobody sees a flower, really -- it's so small -- we haven't time, and to see takes time ..."
--Georgia O'Keeffe
"These are the days of the time famine," says Odette Pollar in her newspaper column aimed at helping people work smarter. She cites some interesting statistics. According to a Harris survey, the amount of leisure time enjoyed by the average American has shrunk 37 percent since 1973. In the same period, the average work week, including commute time, has jumped from fewer than 41 hours to nearly 47 hours, and in some cases up to 80 hours a week.
I like the term time famine, and starvation is certainly an appropriate analogy for our situation. Many of us are starved for time and we have a passionate desire to be fed. We are starving for those moments of solitude when we can just hang out, cleaning out a drawer or looking through old letters, with no pressure or guilt. Our starvation deprives us of the nutrition that those in-between times used to give us: a feeling of centeredness in our lives, of awareness of our spiritual needs and those of our families, a confident sense of self-knowledge.
Georgia O'Keeffe's words ring authentic as you look at her paintings of flowers. She spent many hours "doing nothing" with a flower. No time famine for her. Her artistic life in the desert was a statement against the idea. And we continue to benefit from the results.
In a famine -- at least in the best of situations -- those who have help those who have not. Thus a question presents itself: Where are you in the time famine, among the haves or the have-nots? Sometimes one, sometimes the other?
For have-nots: Today, stop and really look at a flower.
For haves: Help someone else to do the same.
Anyone out there not in the time famine? Speaking of which, I better close for now because i've got a lot of things to do today ... go figure!
And yes Andy, i'm definitely "digging this". :-) I just hope our readers are as well. And speaking of readers, check out Sandy's comment on my first post. She found the quote I was looking for. (Thanks Sandy!)
Until next time ...
~Celena
Thursday, November 16, 2006
A Bonus Thought...
This isn't really tied as much to this last posting as it is our earlier ones but an old song I'd heard came to mind and I thought I'd share the lyrics here with you. It essentially deals with the idea of those friends who have come into our life for a season but don't really continue down the path with us the whole way. Thought it was kind of poignant and pertinent to the discussion. Enjoy!
A Season in Your Path
Words and Music by Wayne Watson
Heard that friends are friends forever
But we don't talk much anymore
I guess that I’ve gone my way
And I guess that you've gone yours
Was kindness too neglected
On my list of deep regret?
In spite of distance unexpected
Can we forgive but not forget?
Sometimes I think about you
Some old memories make me cry
Remembering the good times makes me laugh
But all in all I'm richer
For the happy and the sad
And I’m thankful for a season in your path
I guess God alone deciphers
When people need each other most
Who will be the blessed receiver
And who will be the gracious host
And all a servant here can do
Is unto the Lord avail
Content at times to be the wind
And at times to be the sail
If another winter settles
On your shoulder down the road
Without a thought of what’s behind us
Let me help you pull your load
Sometimes I think about you
Some old memories make me cry
Remembering the good times makes me laugh
But all in all I’m richer
For the happy and the sad
And I'm thankful for a season in your path
Good stuff, huh?
- Andy
A Season in Your Path
Words and Music by Wayne Watson
Heard that friends are friends forever
But we don't talk much anymore
I guess that I’ve gone my way
And I guess that you've gone yours
Was kindness too neglected
On my list of deep regret?
In spite of distance unexpected
Can we forgive but not forget?
Sometimes I think about you
Some old memories make me cry
Remembering the good times makes me laugh
But all in all I'm richer
For the happy and the sad
And I’m thankful for a season in your path
I guess God alone deciphers
When people need each other most
Who will be the blessed receiver
And who will be the gracious host
And all a servant here can do
Is unto the Lord avail
Content at times to be the wind
And at times to be the sail
If another winter settles
On your shoulder down the road
Without a thought of what’s behind us
Let me help you pull your load
Sometimes I think about you
Some old memories make me cry
Remembering the good times makes me laugh
But all in all I’m richer
For the happy and the sad
And I'm thankful for a season in your path
Good stuff, huh?
- Andy
In the Moment...
Wow! That is quite an impressive post! Um, and did I mention that it's pretty freakin' long too? Wow. But, good stuff. I really like where you're going with a lot of your thinking here! Anyway, enough with all of that. On with the discussion.I want to focus right now on the idea that your professor put into your head, that we are to really just live in the present, or in the moment. This is great advice. Most of us live our lives with our focus upon the past (what have we done? what haven't we done? what should we have done?) or in the future (where will I be? what will I be doing? will it be better?), instead of truly living in the moment. I know that this is something that I struggle with daily. It seems like there is always something else to be done, whether it's writing a review, putting a kid to bed, cooking dinner, or whatever and I find that I miss the moments that are right before me.
It's actually funny (and please excuse this writing style as well which is totally just a flow of consciousness thing right now!) but I really have been thinking about this this week as I drove down the traffic-jammed roads, watching people nod their heads to music while talking on their cell phones. We pride ourselves on being multi-taskers, on being people who "accomplish things". Hmmmm....sounds great until you actually live in it.
If I may, for but a moment, revert to my preachery days, I'm reminded of a story from Jesus' life, in which he's hanging out with these two sisters, Mary and Martha. They're the sisters of the guy, Lazarus, that Jesus ends up bringing back to life. Anyway, Jesus comes to see them and Martha dives into the kitchen, fixing this and cooking that. She's obsessed with getting all sorts of preparations done. But her sister, Mary, just sits at the feet of Jesus, enjoying his presence and listening to him speak and teach. Martha gets pissed and storms in, complaining about Mary's supposed laziness. Jesus responds simply. He says:
"Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, 42but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her." (Luke 10:41, 42).
This to me seems to be the same situation. Martha was consumed with what needed to be done, with what had not been done, and so forth that she missed the important thing. Jesus, the Savior of the world, was in her living room and she was worried about baking cookies! We do the same thing in our every day lives. One thing we assume far too readily is that we will have tomorrow. It's a morbid thought for some but it's a reality all the same. We don't know what the next day holds.
Yet, the moment is the only thing we can truly experience and, at least in some ways, have control over. Yesterday is past. There is nothing we can do about the places where we failed or the moments we missed. This is not to diminish the consequences of those mistakes but they are in the past. To beat ourselves up over them is simply foolish. Likewise, the future is beyond our control as well. Certainly it is wise to be prepared for the proverbial rainy day or to work toward a goal, but when, to some degree, you become obsessed with tomorrow and miss out on the blessings of today, you've gone too far.
Monastic spirituality, both Christian and non, greatly deal in this realm. As I've studied the monastic orders some the past year or so, I've become very moved by their devotion to the moment. Each moment is spent trying to taste of all of life, seeing it as a blessing and gift from God above. The cool air on our face, the sunshine breaking down, casting dappled shadows on the fallen leaves, all these are blessings, gifts not to be missed. The call of our child to play, the simple desire in our lover's eye, or a loud belly laugh that comes out of nowhere, all gifts. Yet, we miss them day in and day out. We are obsessed with appearance, judgement, pride, time, and so many other factors that our lives become dictated by outside sources.
This leads me to where I think you're probably heading at the end of your post, with the idea that we outside forces to tell us who we are. We're taught that we are our jobs. Nine times out of ten when we meet people we inevitably find ourselves asking, "So, what do you do?", as though it will give us a glimpse into the depths of their soul. In some ways, sure, there might be some validity to that. But the honest truth is that the waste collector is no worse nor better than the thorasic surgeon or (gotta throw this one in there :) ) rocket scientist! We, especially in my view of faith through the eyes of a Christ-follower, are all on a level playing field. We all have and do screw up. We all cry, die, laugh, live, love, hurt, and long for something better. Our jobs are important to us but they do not define us.
I could probably go on and on but, well, it's late and I'm tired. I'm digging this thing thus far, how about you?
- Andy
Wednesday, November 15, 2006
Our other blogs
We have yet to update our profile so I thought I would share with you our own personal blogs.
Andy: http://www.shadowsofthecross.blogspot.com/
Celena: http://www.thefamilycrews.blogspot.com/
Andy: http://www.shadowsofthecross.blogspot.com/
Celena: http://www.thefamilycrews.blogspot.com/
Quotes for Life
I think you hit the nail right on the head Andy. As life goes on, we change. That's a fact of life that we would all be better off to recognize and accept. I think many people have a difficult time evolving/growing/changing when everything else in thier life is the status quo. Maybe we need to part from people who know us so well so that we may reinvent ourselves a bit. I know i've had to do that several times. The really special thing about a good friend is that they are there for you when the time comes to reunite. With no grudges or hard feelings about the time you spent away. That is how you know you have a truly special friend.
I'm reminded as I type this of people in my life that have come and gone that I will most likely never be close with again. I find it interesting that these are the "friends" that seemed most resistant to change. Or could you just call them stubborn? They got stuck in one phase of life and think anyone that goes off and changes themself is no longer friend material. The world would be such a better place if everyone could just open their hearts and their minds to the ever changing ebb and flow of life. To borrow a favorite quote of mine: "Life is a journey, not a destination. Love like you've never been hurt, work like you don't need money, and dance like nobody's watching." Changing the subject a bit here but alas, that is how my crazy mind works and probably how we mean for this blog to work as well. Anyhow .... what I was thinking of is the first sentence of that quote along with another. First let me share the other quote and where it came from and then I will get back to where I was going. (here you will see why Andy is such a better writer than I ... I write like my mind thinks ... he is so much more eloquent)
It was the end of the Spring '99 semester and my parents were getting divorced. There were issues at home that I had to attend to so I asked my Finite Element Methods professor (Dr. Vu-Quoc) if I could speak with him after class. We had a test planned on a day that my family needed me to be home. I asked him if I could take the test either before I left or after I got back. He said he wanted to talk to me first so we stepped outside. He said he could tell my mind had been elsewhere and that I looked a bit stressed. I thought this a bit odd because he was a professor with a very strong accent who had a difficult time getting through to the class. I was very surprised to find him so in tune with me. He told me he didn't care much about the test. He just wanted to share something with me. In his infinite wisdom he said "Live in the present for it is a present". I will remember that day for the rest of my life. I still remember right where we were standing outside the aerospace building at UF.
I have always struggled to maintain balance in my life. Someone once asked me if I were to write a book about life what would I call it? My answer: "The Search for Balance". I tend to let stressful situations invade every aspect of my life. I have always struggled with this. Then I remember the two quotes I shared above and I attempt to once again recenter myself. As my "journey" continues I find myself getting much better at this. What I really wanted to share here is this ... relish the moment you are living in because you never know when it may be your last. You can't take all that money or all those bills with you when you die. Okay, the side of me that wants to be ever prepared is telling me that you need to make sure your affairs are taken care of when you pass so that your relatives aren't left with a mess. This is true but beyond that, don't let that bill you can't pay yet or that test you haven't passed yet or that closet you haven't organized yet invade your brain and keep you from enjoying the moment you are in right now. It is so easy get stuck living for the future or living in the past. In doing so you are wasting the gift of the present. I struggle with allowing myself to have fun because there are so many things that "need to be done" ... or so I think. As a parent and a stay-at-home, work-at-home, all-around-trying-to-be-a-supermom type of person I find it a constant challenge to allow myself a few minutes every day just to enjoy the moment. To make my baby laugh, to help my two-year-old build something with his building blocks, to snuggle with my husband, to play fetch with my dogs ... and the list could go on and on. I shouldn't be thinking about that closet that I still haven't organized while i'm sitting on the floor playing with my baby ... but I do. Do you struggle with this? That closet isn't coming with me when I die but hopefully the spirit of the relationship I have with my children and husband will live forever.
These are the things i've been working on lately. Just trying to allow myself to enjoy life because I really think that's the point. I've struggled a lot with this because I lived for so long working towards "what a wanted to be when I grew up". And i'm proud to say I did that. I was an Aerospace Engineer at NASA ... but now i'm a wife and mom and i'm loving every minute of it ... when I allow myself to, that is. I'm working on letting go of the past and enjoying the present. I'm working on allowing myself to enjoy life and not stress about all the little things like money and that closet I keep mentioning. This leads my mind to another topic that i'll save for a later post ... i'll just hint that it has to do with people associating us with what we are instead of who we are. I made a major change in "what" i am a few years ago and it is very interesting to watch the reactions of everyone around me to that change. But before I digress into that ...
I've been on a Serenity Prayer kick here lately. A very dear friend of mine reminded me of it recently and it really stuck. Since my conversation with her that day I have probably recited it to myself at least ten times. So I will close by sharing it with you ...
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference."
I'm reminded as I type this of people in my life that have come and gone that I will most likely never be close with again. I find it interesting that these are the "friends" that seemed most resistant to change. Or could you just call them stubborn? They got stuck in one phase of life and think anyone that goes off and changes themself is no longer friend material. The world would be such a better place if everyone could just open their hearts and their minds to the ever changing ebb and flow of life. To borrow a favorite quote of mine: "Life is a journey, not a destination. Love like you've never been hurt, work like you don't need money, and dance like nobody's watching." Changing the subject a bit here but alas, that is how my crazy mind works and probably how we mean for this blog to work as well. Anyhow .... what I was thinking of is the first sentence of that quote along with another. First let me share the other quote and where it came from and then I will get back to where I was going. (here you will see why Andy is such a better writer than I ... I write like my mind thinks ... he is so much more eloquent)
It was the end of the Spring '99 semester and my parents were getting divorced. There were issues at home that I had to attend to so I asked my Finite Element Methods professor (Dr. Vu-Quoc) if I could speak with him after class. We had a test planned on a day that my family needed me to be home. I asked him if I could take the test either before I left or after I got back. He said he wanted to talk to me first so we stepped outside. He said he could tell my mind had been elsewhere and that I looked a bit stressed. I thought this a bit odd because he was a professor with a very strong accent who had a difficult time getting through to the class. I was very surprised to find him so in tune with me. He told me he didn't care much about the test. He just wanted to share something with me. In his infinite wisdom he said "Live in the present for it is a present". I will remember that day for the rest of my life. I still remember right where we were standing outside the aerospace building at UF.
I have always struggled to maintain balance in my life. Someone once asked me if I were to write a book about life what would I call it? My answer: "The Search for Balance". I tend to let stressful situations invade every aspect of my life. I have always struggled with this. Then I remember the two quotes I shared above and I attempt to once again recenter myself. As my "journey" continues I find myself getting much better at this. What I really wanted to share here is this ... relish the moment you are living in because you never know when it may be your last. You can't take all that money or all those bills with you when you die. Okay, the side of me that wants to be ever prepared is telling me that you need to make sure your affairs are taken care of when you pass so that your relatives aren't left with a mess. This is true but beyond that, don't let that bill you can't pay yet or that test you haven't passed yet or that closet you haven't organized yet invade your brain and keep you from enjoying the moment you are in right now. It is so easy get stuck living for the future or living in the past. In doing so you are wasting the gift of the present. I struggle with allowing myself to have fun because there are so many things that "need to be done" ... or so I think. As a parent and a stay-at-home, work-at-home, all-around-trying-to-be-a-supermom type of person I find it a constant challenge to allow myself a few minutes every day just to enjoy the moment. To make my baby laugh, to help my two-year-old build something with his building blocks, to snuggle with my husband, to play fetch with my dogs ... and the list could go on and on. I shouldn't be thinking about that closet that I still haven't organized while i'm sitting on the floor playing with my baby ... but I do. Do you struggle with this? That closet isn't coming with me when I die but hopefully the spirit of the relationship I have with my children and husband will live forever.
These are the things i've been working on lately. Just trying to allow myself to enjoy life because I really think that's the point. I've struggled a lot with this because I lived for so long working towards "what a wanted to be when I grew up". And i'm proud to say I did that. I was an Aerospace Engineer at NASA ... but now i'm a wife and mom and i'm loving every minute of it ... when I allow myself to, that is. I'm working on letting go of the past and enjoying the present. I'm working on allowing myself to enjoy life and not stress about all the little things like money and that closet I keep mentioning. This leads my mind to another topic that i'll save for a later post ... i'll just hint that it has to do with people associating us with what we are instead of who we are. I made a major change in "what" i am a few years ago and it is very interesting to watch the reactions of everyone around me to that change. But before I digress into that ...
I've been on a Serenity Prayer kick here lately. A very dear friend of mine reminded me of it recently and it really stuck. Since my conversation with her that day I have probably recited it to myself at least ten times. So I will close by sharing it with you ...
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference."
Monday, October 30, 2006
Friendships That Go By...
That's a really good question that you pose toward the end there. Why do we find ourselves letting what were, at least at one time, valuable and good friendships and relationships fall by the wayside? I think the answer has many answers, and for many people, they may be different.
I think the first reason is simply that life gets in the way. Early on in life, in high school and early adulthood, we have tons of time and little money, so our friends are our life. We spend every night, some mornings, and the rest of the time on the phone or emailing them. They are our support structure, even in some ways over and above our parents. We are striking out on our own, we're all in the same boat, and we are here for one another. Yet, somewhere along the line, as college comes and this one moves to go to school three states away, or this one gets engaged, or that one even gets married and has a child, the dynamic changes. Our social structure has suffered a severe fracture, and life as we know it is no longer the same. We have other priorities, careers, and other people who demand our time more. I don't believe that we intend to let those relationships fall by the wayside, in fact, we're probably adamant about not letting that happen. I remember you and I doing the same thing, saying to one another, "Let's not let it go this long between talking again", yet, we did.
I really think that is the number one cause as to why we let that happen. Yet, there's got to be more. Ironically, and I really sound like a parent now, but I think the next part is maturity. As we grow into adults, we really do become new people. Our personalities change because the world around us has drastically changed. No longer are we in the protective bubble of grade school where we know the boundary lines and the social status (i.e, she's the popular one, he's the super jock, she's the school slut) but are now thrust into a world of indecision, uncertainty, and, in some ways, fear. As we deal with these things and learn and grow, we do so in different ways. Some cope through working through these pressing issues and come out on the other side better people. Some press through and get beaten down. Others even retreat, trying to still exist given the same pathos that reigned in high school. As this happens, we find our friendships coming and going, becoming fine tuned by our growth.
I could go on a bit more, and this sounds way more grown up and "know-it-all-ish" than is intended, but it's my two-cents worth on the issue. What do you think?
- Andy
I think the first reason is simply that life gets in the way. Early on in life, in high school and early adulthood, we have tons of time and little money, so our friends are our life. We spend every night, some mornings, and the rest of the time on the phone or emailing them. They are our support structure, even in some ways over and above our parents. We are striking out on our own, we're all in the same boat, and we are here for one another. Yet, somewhere along the line, as college comes and this one moves to go to school three states away, or this one gets engaged, or that one even gets married and has a child, the dynamic changes. Our social structure has suffered a severe fracture, and life as we know it is no longer the same. We have other priorities, careers, and other people who demand our time more. I don't believe that we intend to let those relationships fall by the wayside, in fact, we're probably adamant about not letting that happen. I remember you and I doing the same thing, saying to one another, "Let's not let it go this long between talking again", yet, we did.
I really think that is the number one cause as to why we let that happen. Yet, there's got to be more. Ironically, and I really sound like a parent now, but I think the next part is maturity. As we grow into adults, we really do become new people. Our personalities change because the world around us has drastically changed. No longer are we in the protective bubble of grade school where we know the boundary lines and the social status (i.e, she's the popular one, he's the super jock, she's the school slut) but are now thrust into a world of indecision, uncertainty, and, in some ways, fear. As we deal with these things and learn and grow, we do so in different ways. Some cope through working through these pressing issues and come out on the other side better people. Some press through and get beaten down. Others even retreat, trying to still exist given the same pathos that reigned in high school. As this happens, we find our friendships coming and going, becoming fine tuned by our growth.
I could go on a bit more, and this sounds way more grown up and "know-it-all-ish" than is intended, but it's my two-cents worth on the issue. What do you think?
- Andy
Friday, October 27, 2006
On Friendship
Andy and I talk about many things. As of late it has been about some of our fellow classmates and old friends from high school. Not in a bad way, just making some observations. Most of us have grown up, gotten married, had kids. But some just seem to be stuck at a point in life which i'm very happy to have moved past. I've been going through a phase lately, probably thanks to class reunion planning and myspace, of reconnecting with old friends. I've realized as i've gotten older just how special true friendships are. Along with the joy of finding old friends comes some regret for letting certain people get away. We are lucky to have things like the internet that allow us to find people we otherwise would never hear from or see again in this lifetime. There is a saying that comes to mind here. It's one about certain people that enter your life and leave an impression that changes you forever. Maybe i'll find the correct wording sometime and post it here. (Until then i'll just run with what I remember of it.) I have been truly blessed to have had such wonderful friends enter my life. I am even more blessed to have the opportunity to reconnect with some of those with whom my life led me away from. We all have many types of friends as we journey through life, some more special than others. There are work friends, acquaintances, soccer team friends, school friends, mom friends, college friends, etc. When you run into someone you haven't seen in five, ten, even fifteen years and it's like you never spent any time away ... that is truly a special thing. I've been very fortunate to have some friends like that in my life. And even more fortunate to have the opportunity to reconnect with them. There are people i've come across in life that I have felt I should be friends with. Some people that i've tried really hard to be friends with. I've realized that life is too short for things like that. When you have to start all over each time you see eachother, even if it's only been a few months, then maybe that friendship just wasn't meant to be. I would much rather spend my time on other things. This may sound harsh and like I won't make any new friends that way but this is not the case. As I sit here thinking of all the special friends that have entered my life I realize something ... none of those people took "work" to become friends with. Things just fell into place. And this goes for every phase of life i've been through. For example, neighborhood friends from childhood like Larry D. Our lives put us in contact with eachother. We lived on the same street. There were plenty of other kids in the neighborhood that I was friends with but I now realize how special of a friend Larry was and now again is. We never had to work on our friendship, it just happened. And after not seeing eachother for twelve years we have found that we are able to pick back up right where we left off. And I am so thankful for that. Then there are school friends like Andy. We just happened to sit next to eachother in fifth grade. We had classes together throughout school and rode the bus together. Circumstances put us together and we easily became friends. We have been out of touch for years at a time but each time we have been able to pick back up like we were never apart. That is a truly special thing. Then there is my college friend Rachel. One of the most special friends and the sister I never had. She was my Maid of Honor when I got married. Rachel and I had many fun times together in college. We have lived in completely different parts of the state and then the country from eachother for six years now yet we are as close as ever. And it doesn't matter if we go two months without talking or two days. It is always the same. There are never any hard feelings for not keeping up with eachother when one of us has a lot going on. We just pick right back up like we just talked yesterday. I am so fortunate to have friends like this to write about. And the best thing is that Larry, Andy and Rachel are not the only ones. There's Cari, Dave, Andre, Rose, Sarah and several others. It is in the spirit of these friendships that I would like to get this blog started. For Andy and I have many great conversations that we would like to share with you.
Here is a question to ponder:
Why is it that we sometimes don't see how special a friendship is until it is gone?
That's all I have for now. I hope you enjoy what comes from this blog as much as Andy and I will enjoy writing it for you.
~Celena
Here is a question to ponder:
Why is it that we sometimes don't see how special a friendship is until it is gone?
That's all I have for now. I hope you enjoy what comes from this blog as much as Andy and I will enjoy writing it for you.
~Celena
Saturday, August 05, 2006
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)