Okay, thus far in rereading some of my most recent posts I realize that, well, I haven't really said much in regards to my response to yours in regards to either the "emerging church" or the pursuit of truth. So, in five minutes or less, here's a crash course!
Let's discuss the "emerging church" deal first. The emerging church movement is credited with beginning in the mid to late 90's as a response to the failures of our parent's fundamentalism as well as a reaction to the postmodern philosophy which began to really take a solid hold over modernism. Essentially, people saw the holes in the picture and started to rethink things, considering that there must be other ways to do things. Our good friends at Wikipedia have a really great breakdown on the movement here: Emerging churches.
I suggest you check that out and see if you have any questions from there.
As you'll see from the reading there, the movement is not without its share of critics as well as adherents. Much of the criticism does come from the open minded approach to the spiritual life and how we interpret it and so forth. This sounds very much like what you're encountering there in Lake City. With all due respect, you're not alone. I found myself at my non-denominational Bible college last year, asking questions that were a dash controversial, and having my salvation questioned. These were good people but to expand and rethink some things that, for them, just were, was not a worthwhile exercise. There is security in knowing, or at least thinking we know. Yet, if we are to truly know, I wonder if maybe we have to admit that, to some degree, we could be wrong. We need to have the courage to engage other viewpoints and to glean from the wisdom they offer.
There's a little something on the emerging church. Next post I'll address your discussion of truth, science, and God. Let's keep the discussion going!
- andy
Tuesday, December 12, 2006
Thursday, December 07, 2006
Regular Programming cont'd...
Okay, let me see if I can pick up where my thoughts were going here. This time it's pretty early so, once again, I'll not be responsible for the lucidity of my thoughts!
Thus far we've discussed a bit of the schism that has come as a result of the Reformation and the prevailing philosophical and theological thought of the time. Now, let us say, there were very positive things that came via the Reformation as well. The whole uprising, if we may call it that, pointed out a bevy of corruption within the Church and helped to bring change, good change, in many ways. Yet, somewhere along the way we lost sight of a few things.
Fast forward to now where I'll drop my pseudo-history lesson and delve more into some personal opinions and thoughts. In my opinion, Christianity as a religion, and many that would term themselves "Christian", have become arrogant within their system of belief. As we've discussed the idea of "attachment" before, we now see a dire attachment to a theological or doctrinal system. They cling to this system of belief and utilize it in effort to deal with what this world throws at them. The issue comes when the paradox hits, when the black and white merge to form gray. This is the point at which a decision must be made. Do I forage forth now with holes in the proverbial boat or do I have the courage of my convictions to open my hand and to hold even my worldview, my theology, with an uplifted palm to God, admitting that the mind of God is simply greater than the mind of man?
There's more to come but I wanted to keep the conversation going. I hope you are following my train of thought. This feels like it's a serious "stream of conciousness"-type of writing but hopefully, as I prayed before, this is making sense. Just hang in there with me. So, am I making sense thus far? Any comments?
- andy
Thus far we've discussed a bit of the schism that has come as a result of the Reformation and the prevailing philosophical and theological thought of the time. Now, let us say, there were very positive things that came via the Reformation as well. The whole uprising, if we may call it that, pointed out a bevy of corruption within the Church and helped to bring change, good change, in many ways. Yet, somewhere along the way we lost sight of a few things.
Fast forward to now where I'll drop my pseudo-history lesson and delve more into some personal opinions and thoughts. In my opinion, Christianity as a religion, and many that would term themselves "Christian", have become arrogant within their system of belief. As we've discussed the idea of "attachment" before, we now see a dire attachment to a theological or doctrinal system. They cling to this system of belief and utilize it in effort to deal with what this world throws at them. The issue comes when the paradox hits, when the black and white merge to form gray. This is the point at which a decision must be made. Do I forage forth now with holes in the proverbial boat or do I have the courage of my convictions to open my hand and to hold even my worldview, my theology, with an uplifted palm to God, admitting that the mind of God is simply greater than the mind of man?
There's more to come but I wanted to keep the conversation going. I hope you are following my train of thought. This feels like it's a serious "stream of conciousness"-type of writing but hopefully, as I prayed before, this is making sense. Just hang in there with me. So, am I making sense thus far? Any comments?
- andy
Wednesday, December 06, 2006
Tuesday, December 05, 2006
Back to Our Regular Programming
I'm sorry for the delay in responding. Much like your week last week, ours has been crazy here. But, alas, we are back at it again. Due to the hour and the need to treat this topic with care, my post may be incomplete but stay tuned for future episodes which may or may not explain more!
Anyway, on with the show. You asked about the "emerging church" and we will get to that but in somewhat of a roundabout way. Again, I ask you to consider the hour. We can only pray that lucid thoughts will come. Let us begin with your musings upon holistic living, integrating the practice of yoga in particular, and the antagonistic response you received by your Baptist neighbors.
Protestant Christianity has done much to run from it's roots in the ancient church and Catholicism in particular. Ever since the Reformation when Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door in Wittenburg, a great rift has separated the Catholic church from the Protestant. In recent years, particularly after the changes made at Vatican II, the Catholic Church has become far more accepting of their Protestant brothers and sisters, regarding them as true members of the Church and subsequently of the family of God. The Protestant side of the deal hasn't been as welcoming, however. Much superstition and lore surrounds the practices of the Catholic Church. Foreign terms, new imagery, and theoretically divergent theological leanings separate the two. The problem here is that these suppostions are based in ignorance.
This ignorance is not unlike what you're experiencing in good old Lake City. These people are afraid of what they don't know. A human's natural tendency is to be exclusionary. We like the idea that we're in, we know how to get it, and are therefore the gatekeepers. We don't like the idea that it's more complex than that. In all honesty, much of Protestant Christianity is built upon some ground that has become far removed from what it was intended to be.
Okay, I really want to keep going with this but, well, I'm falling asleep and have to be up early tomorrow morning. I'm honestly not sure if this even makes sense thus far but I wanted to keep the conversation going. Tomorrow I'll post some more and clue you in a bit more about the entity known as the "emerging church".
- andy
Anyway, on with the show. You asked about the "emerging church" and we will get to that but in somewhat of a roundabout way. Again, I ask you to consider the hour. We can only pray that lucid thoughts will come. Let us begin with your musings upon holistic living, integrating the practice of yoga in particular, and the antagonistic response you received by your Baptist neighbors.
Protestant Christianity has done much to run from it's roots in the ancient church and Catholicism in particular. Ever since the Reformation when Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door in Wittenburg, a great rift has separated the Catholic church from the Protestant. In recent years, particularly after the changes made at Vatican II, the Catholic Church has become far more accepting of their Protestant brothers and sisters, regarding them as true members of the Church and subsequently of the family of God. The Protestant side of the deal hasn't been as welcoming, however. Much superstition and lore surrounds the practices of the Catholic Church. Foreign terms, new imagery, and theoretically divergent theological leanings separate the two. The problem here is that these suppostions are based in ignorance.
This ignorance is not unlike what you're experiencing in good old Lake City. These people are afraid of what they don't know. A human's natural tendency is to be exclusionary. We like the idea that we're in, we know how to get it, and are therefore the gatekeepers. We don't like the idea that it's more complex than that. In all honesty, much of Protestant Christianity is built upon some ground that has become far removed from what it was intended to be.
Okay, I really want to keep going with this but, well, I'm falling asleep and have to be up early tomorrow morning. I'm honestly not sure if this even makes sense thus far but I wanted to keep the conversation going. Tomorrow I'll post some more and clue you in a bit more about the entity known as the "emerging church".
- andy
Friday, December 01, 2006
The mind is an amazing thing ...
A few posts ago you mentioned the "emerging church"...
[Andy Wrote] The practitioners within this movement, sensing some of the same disconnect we have experienced, have sought to renew the move of faith and worship in that holistic sense, even within the gathering together. Many have mined the ancient practices of the early church in order to renew these things. Pulling together a number of elements that focus on multiple senses and experiences, worship and gathering together can become an interactive, integrated time instead of a lecture.
You told me to let you know if I wanted to hear more. Well you have peaked my curiosity so please, do tell more. Now this may seem completely random but I would like to share a story with you. It may seem unrelated at first but it actually has a lot to do with the topics at hand. (note: names have been changed to protect the innocent, guilty and all involved) The topics of "My Religious Journey", "Truth" and "My Perfect Church".
I found myself, due to tragic circumstances, living here in Lake City a few years back. Having given up my career as an aerospace engineer to follow my husband here, I found myself in an interesting place in life. What was I going to do with myself? My whole life all I ever wanted to be was an aerospace engineer (and then an astronaut if the opportunity ever arose). There's not much of a market for that job here in LC. So I had to look deep inside and ask myself, who am I outside of that label? What else am I passionate enough about to take on as a career? (i'll try to shorten this up a bit otherwise it could turn into a novel) Long story short, I love yoga. Ever since I took my very first yoga class back in 1998 I have been in love with it. (there are so many reasons I would like to share here but alas, we are not discussing yoga) So I went to a weekend-long teacher training workshop. Part of my yoga teacher training required me to teach 8 hours of yoga for free in the community. I thought "what a great idea". A few weeks later I was introduced to Marsha who runs a facility in the area. Marsha expressed interest in me teaching a class for her until I told her what I wanted to teach was .... drum roll please .... y-o-g-a. She politely told me that there would be no yoga at her gym "because of the whole eastern way of thought". I was honestly speechless. Well I ended up teaching math and science at the high school here in LC (yes, i said the high school). I asked around in the teachers lounge one morning about how I could go about setting up free yoga classes either before or after school to get the hours I needed. Well let's just say that idea got shot down very quickly. I was told that I may be able to get away with it if I didn't use the "y word" ... I couldn't call it "yoga". This was also the same teachers lounge where I found myself in the middle of about six women talking bad about the Catholic church and discovered just how negatively Baptists feel about the Catholic church. The funny part was when I announced to the group that I "grew up Catholic" and got up and walked out. I was also later told that Marsha is "just very religious". (and they actually thought they were explaining things!) Something else to note, this high school had "motivational" religion-based assemblies. Now i'm not saying this is a bad thing, i'm just saying I was very surprised to find that allowed in a public high school in a day and time where parents fight to keep the word "God" out of the Pledge of Allegience. And I wasn't allowed to teach yoga.
Yoga is/can be a very spiritual practice to help you get in tune with your body and mind. Our body is the temple God gave us and I think we should take great care of it. Yoga is one way in which I try to do this. Yoga is not a religion and does not conflict with any main-stream religion that I know of. (are there any religions that tell you not to take care of your body and mind?) Is this making any sense yet? Your words on the holistic expression of faith and your "emerging church" along with your request for me to share my religious journey brought up these thoughts and memories.
Now on "My Truth" ... The bottom line for me is that God is why we are here. (Sometimes I feel like maybe we are all just one big science experiment in a fish bowl.) In explaining the "hows" and "whys" I believe there is both a scientific and a faith based explanation for everything and that instead of contradicting each other they actually go hand-in-hand. Some people need to have blind faith while others, like myself, want some sort of scientific evidence. Not to contradict Jesus or religion but to give us something to wrap our scientific mind around because that is how we think. Because that is how God wants us to think. Questions and discussions lead to an opening of the mind, a broadening of the horizons. I don't think God wants to keep us dumb. I think he wants to see how much we can figure out. He wants us to evolve. I think we need to open our minds a great deal more to be able to fully grasp the concept of "being". We are so small yet so significant in the grand scheme of things. And we only use what percent of our brain? (i can't remember but i know it's a small number) Maybe one day we will unlock the true power God has given us and be able to wrap our heads around this amazing thing he has created. Maybe he knows we just aren't ready for that yet. And as a side note on the topic of evolution, I truly think evolution and creationism go hand-in-hand, just different ways of looking at it.
Well this has gotten pretty heavy and it is very late. My brain needs to rest. I'm looking forward to hearing more on the "emerging church". I will share my religious journey soon, in two parts. The first being my history of church attendance and the second being my personal spiritual journey. What about yours?
~Celena
[Andy Wrote] The practitioners within this movement, sensing some of the same disconnect we have experienced, have sought to renew the move of faith and worship in that holistic sense, even within the gathering together. Many have mined the ancient practices of the early church in order to renew these things. Pulling together a number of elements that focus on multiple senses and experiences, worship and gathering together can become an interactive, integrated time instead of a lecture.
You told me to let you know if I wanted to hear more. Well you have peaked my curiosity so please, do tell more. Now this may seem completely random but I would like to share a story with you. It may seem unrelated at first but it actually has a lot to do with the topics at hand. (note: names have been changed to protect the innocent, guilty and all involved) The topics of "My Religious Journey", "Truth" and "My Perfect Church".
I found myself, due to tragic circumstances, living here in Lake City a few years back. Having given up my career as an aerospace engineer to follow my husband here, I found myself in an interesting place in life. What was I going to do with myself? My whole life all I ever wanted to be was an aerospace engineer (and then an astronaut if the opportunity ever arose). There's not much of a market for that job here in LC. So I had to look deep inside and ask myself, who am I outside of that label? What else am I passionate enough about to take on as a career? (i'll try to shorten this up a bit otherwise it could turn into a novel) Long story short, I love yoga. Ever since I took my very first yoga class back in 1998 I have been in love with it. (there are so many reasons I would like to share here but alas, we are not discussing yoga) So I went to a weekend-long teacher training workshop. Part of my yoga teacher training required me to teach 8 hours of yoga for free in the community. I thought "what a great idea". A few weeks later I was introduced to Marsha who runs a facility in the area. Marsha expressed interest in me teaching a class for her until I told her what I wanted to teach was .... drum roll please .... y-o-g-a. She politely told me that there would be no yoga at her gym "because of the whole eastern way of thought". I was honestly speechless. Well I ended up teaching math and science at the high school here in LC (yes, i said the high school). I asked around in the teachers lounge one morning about how I could go about setting up free yoga classes either before or after school to get the hours I needed. Well let's just say that idea got shot down very quickly. I was told that I may be able to get away with it if I didn't use the "y word" ... I couldn't call it "yoga". This was also the same teachers lounge where I found myself in the middle of about six women talking bad about the Catholic church and discovered just how negatively Baptists feel about the Catholic church. The funny part was when I announced to the group that I "grew up Catholic" and got up and walked out. I was also later told that Marsha is "just very religious". (and they actually thought they were explaining things!) Something else to note, this high school had "motivational" religion-based assemblies. Now i'm not saying this is a bad thing, i'm just saying I was very surprised to find that allowed in a public high school in a day and time where parents fight to keep the word "God" out of the Pledge of Allegience. And I wasn't allowed to teach yoga.
Yoga is/can be a very spiritual practice to help you get in tune with your body and mind. Our body is the temple God gave us and I think we should take great care of it. Yoga is one way in which I try to do this. Yoga is not a religion and does not conflict with any main-stream religion that I know of. (are there any religions that tell you not to take care of your body and mind?) Is this making any sense yet? Your words on the holistic expression of faith and your "emerging church" along with your request for me to share my religious journey brought up these thoughts and memories.
Now on "My Truth" ... The bottom line for me is that God is why we are here. (Sometimes I feel like maybe we are all just one big science experiment in a fish bowl.) In explaining the "hows" and "whys" I believe there is both a scientific and a faith based explanation for everything and that instead of contradicting each other they actually go hand-in-hand. Some people need to have blind faith while others, like myself, want some sort of scientific evidence. Not to contradict Jesus or religion but to give us something to wrap our scientific mind around because that is how we think. Because that is how God wants us to think. Questions and discussions lead to an opening of the mind, a broadening of the horizons. I don't think God wants to keep us dumb. I think he wants to see how much we can figure out. He wants us to evolve. I think we need to open our minds a great deal more to be able to fully grasp the concept of "being". We are so small yet so significant in the grand scheme of things. And we only use what percent of our brain? (i can't remember but i know it's a small number) Maybe one day we will unlock the true power God has given us and be able to wrap our heads around this amazing thing he has created. Maybe he knows we just aren't ready for that yet. And as a side note on the topic of evolution, I truly think evolution and creationism go hand-in-hand, just different ways of looking at it.
Well this has gotten pretty heavy and it is very late. My brain needs to rest. I'm looking forward to hearing more on the "emerging church". I will share my religious journey soon, in two parts. The first being my history of church attendance and the second being my personal spiritual journey. What about yours?
~Celena
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